Welcome! Today we continue our series in the Book of Daniel, looking in depth at Chapter 8. There is a lot of fascinating stuff to get into today, so I am going to get started with the chapter right away.
In the third year of King Belshazzar’s reign, I, Daniel, had a vision, after the one that had already appeared to me. In my vision I saw myself in the citadel of Susa in the province of Elam; in the vision I was beside the Ulai Canal. – Daniel 8:1-2
Let me provide some background and context to understand these verses. As we have seen through this series on Daniel, Daniel was brought as a captive while a teenager out of Jerusalem which had fallen because the Israelites had continued for centuries to ignore God, worship idols, and in general not obey His commands. At last God stopped protecting Israel, and the Babylonians, in a series of events, took over the land of Israel along with much of the known world at that time. They were led by Nebuchadnezzar, and some young Israelites, including Daniel, were selected to live in Babylon and essentially become assimilated into the Babylonian culture, serving at the royal court. In effect, they were supposed to be examples to the other Israelites that good things happen when you adopt the practices and culture of the Babylonians and forget your heritage.
Well, this didn’t happen – Daniel and his friends remained true to God, not just through the obeying of commandments, but also by having a real relationship with God, characterized by seeking after Him and being devoted to prayer. Daniel, over time, and through God’s orchestration of events, was raised up into a position of great power, and he tried over many years to help Nebuchadnezzar see that only God was real and worthy of worship. During these years, God miraculously helped Daniel interpret several visions given to the king.
Ultimately Nebuchadnezzar did come to faith in God.
Later, he died, and after a succession of weaker and more corrupt kings, Belshazzar became king. In Daniel 7, as we talked about last week, we saw a vision given directly to Daniel during the first year of Belshazzar’s reign. This vision takes place in the third year. As we saw in Daniel 5, there isn’t much more of Belshazzar’s reign left – soon the Medes and Persians will conquer the land and kill Belshazzar. This happened on a night (soon to come) when a disembodied hand wrote mysterious writing on a wall, words that Daniel could read that basically meant that Belshazzar had been weighed on a scale and found wanting. But this vision takes place before that.
I should also mention that the vision in Daniel 2 showed a succession of four great empires in the world, and there is strong evidence that the first empire represented the Babylonians, the second the Medes and Persians, the third the Greeks, and the fourth the Romans. In the prophecy in Daniel 7 we saw another depiction of four empires, and there were good reasons to think that these also were describing the same four empires.
Now I need to give you a little more background information about how the book of Daniel fits in with the other books of the Bible, how all of the history of Israel fits together. As we saw in Daniel 6, Daniel ends up being a close advisor to the leader of the Mede-Persian Empire as well, and this leader also comes to faith in God. All this time the Israelites remain in exile, and the Temple remains in ruins along with most of Jerusalem. But during the Mede-Persian Empire, several other books of the Bible take place. One is the book of Esther, which tells how Esther became queen and how God used her to save the Israelites from a decree stating that they would all be killed. Another is the book of Ezra, which tells of how the Israelites were able to go back to Jerusalem and rebuild the Temple. And a third is the book of Nehemiah, which tells how Jerusalem, especially its surrounding wall, was rebuilt.
Now where is Daniel when he has this vision? The passage doesn’t say, but most likely he was in Babylon, as he probably was most of the time except when on errands for the king. Babylon was the center of power for the Babylonian culture. One of the later kings tried to move it but without success. Babylon was the power the center. But in his vision, Daniel is not in Babylon – he is in a place called Susa. What and where is Susa?
We know from plentiful archaeological evidence that Susa was in Iran, hundreds of miles east of Babylon. Susa is in the Bible, not just here in Daniel, but with 19 additional references. One of these is in Ezra 4, where it mentions the Elamites of Susa as part of a group opposing Ezra’s work in rebuilding the temple. Another is in Nehemiah, at the very beginning of the book, where it is seen to be the power center for Artaxexes, king of the Mede-Persian empire. The other 17 references to Susa take place in the book of Esther, and Susa is again described as the site of the king’s palace. From other sources we know that Darius is the king who made Susa the new capital of the empire, and it was he who had the grand palace of Susa built.
Before any of this happens, Daniel has this vision, and in this vision, there he is, in Susa! I find this to be a compelling detail. At the time of this prophecy, Susa was nothing special, just an undistinguished town, actually a ruin. An earlier Babylonian nation had madeSusa into a fortress, but it had been completely destroyed about a hundred years prior to the point in time when Daniel had this vision. Now what about the Ulai Canal?Archaeologists have found evidence, just northeast of the ruins of Susa, of the ruins of an artificial canal about 900 feet long that connected two other rivers. How did Daniel know the names of these places, of Susa and the Ulai canal? That’s a good question. Perhaps he had once been there in person, or perhaps he was revealed the names of these places during the visions – I suspect the latter, although that is conjecture.
I looked up, and there before me was a ram with two horns, standing beside the canal, and the horns were long. One of the horns was longer than the other but grew up later. I watched the ram as he charged toward the west and the north and the south. No animal could stand against him, and none could rescue from his power. He did as he pleased and became great. – Daniel 8:3-4
The ram here symbolizes a powerful nation. The two horns symbolize leaders; one apparently gains power later than the other but overtakes the first in power and influence. Together, symbolically as they are part of one animal, they have great power and become an empire.
Later in this chapter we are told explicitly the meaning of this prophecy: the two-horned ram represents the empire of the Medes and Persians. And from what we know of history, the details of this prophecy are right on. And as is often the case, they are right on multiple levels.
First, the ram actually came to be a symbol of the Mede-Persian Empire. Marcellinus, a historian from the fourth century AD, wrote that every ruler or military leader of the Mede-Persian Empire had a picture of either a complete ram or the head of a ram (with horns) on some part of their clothing or armor. This was especially so when going into battle; the ram would be a prominent part of his attire. And the ram can be found on numerous seals from the Mede-Persian Empire as well. Also found are pictures of the zodiac from this time period in which nations represent signs of the zodiac, and Persia is always associated with the ram (Aries).
Second, the growing horns describes perfectly what happened. Initially the Medes were vastly stronger than the Persians, and in fact, the Medes had helped the Babylonians as they swept into power. During this time, Persia was a relatively tiny country, about 50 thousand square miles with little military strength. But Cyrus was a Persian, and under his leadership, Persia grew and grew until it essentially took over the Medes, becoming by far the stronger of the two. Cyrus became known as Cyrus the Great.
And third, the expansion really went first towards the west, and then towards the north, and then towards the south. To the west were Syria, Asia Minor, and Babylonia. To the north were Armenia and the smaller nations around the Caspian Sea. And to the south were Egypt and Ethiopia. Ethiopia was one of the last parts to be added to the empire.
As I was thinking about this, suddenly a goat with a prominent horn between his eyes came from the west, crossing the whole earth without touching the ground. He came toward the two-horned ram I had seen standing beside the canal and charged at him in great rage. I saw him attack the ram furiously, striking the ram and shattering his two horns. The ram was powerless to stand against him; the goat knocked him to the ground and trampled on him, and none could rescue the ram from his power. – Daniel 8:5-7
Later in this chapter it is explained that the goat represents Greece. And again, this prophecy is exactly right on multiple levels. This goat, unlike “real” goats, only had one horn, representing one leader. This leader was Alexander, and Alexander became known as Alexander the Great.
Just as the ram was the appropriate animal to represent the Medes and Persians, so was the goat the perfect animal to represent Greece. The goat was the national emblem of Greece and was found on coins from that time period. The ancient capital of Greece was Aegae, which means goat, or Goat City. The Aegaean Sea around Greece was the Goat Sea. A son of Alexander was called Aegus, literally the Son of a Goat.
And they really did come from the west. If you look on a map you will see that Greece is west of Iran, west (northwest) of the cities of Babylon and Susa. In the earlier prophecy Greece was represented with a leopard with wings, because of its great speed in conquering everything. Depending on how you count things, you could say that it took 10 to 20 years for the Medes and Persians to build their empire; you could also say that it only took 5 to 10 years for the Greeks to do it. And the Greek Empire was much larger than that of the Medes and Persians. It covered more of Europe, more of Asia, and much more of Africa. He later tried to add India, but that didn’t go so well.
The ram really was powerless; the Mede-Persian Empire was completely defeated and ceased to exist. In its place was the Empire of Alexander, who went by the titles King of Macedon, Hegemon (from which we get the word hegemony, meaning total absolute rule of one over another) of the Hellenistic League, Lord (or God) of Asia, Pharaoh of Egypt, and Shahanshah (king of kings) of Persia. Remember that all this happened long after Daniel had died. It is all true, detailed prophecy.
Here are a few interesting facts about Alexander the Great. From age 13-16 he was tutored by Aristotle. From 16-19 he went on military campaigns with his father, king Philip, who united the smallish nations of Macedonia and Greece. At age 20 his father was assassinated, and Alexander became king. He then had all potential rivals eliminated, re-consolidated his father’s power (some states tried to declare independence), and soon advanced into the Balkans, Asia Minor, and Syria. On the few instances there was resistance, he responded brutally. Tyre, a key city in Phoenicia, resisted, and he laid siege to them. Upon his victory, he killed the men in the city of military age and had all women, children, and older men deported as slaves.
He then came to the Middle East. After the fall of Tyre, Egypt quickly gave up, except for Gaza. There was another siege in Gaza and a similar result. Egypt never liked the Medes and Persians, and regarded Alexander as a liberator. Egypt declared him the “Master of the Universe” and proclaimed him to be a son of the god Ammon. Ammon had many qualities similar to Zeus (a father figure, God of Gods, etc.), and from this time on, Alexander would say that Zeus-Ammon (he would say they were one and the same) was his true father. Ammon had sometimes been depicted as surrounded with horns, showing that he could completely dominate all around him, and following the conquest of Egypt, Greek currency often showed Alexander adorned or surrounded with horns.
He came to Israel and met no resistance. Who could resist? He did not destroy Jerusalem or anything else, but they had to submit to Greece.
The goat became very great, but at the height of his power his large horn was broken off, and in its place four prominent horns grew up toward the four winds of heaven. – Daniel 8:8
This too is exactly what happened. At only age 33, at the peak of his power, ruling the largest empire the world had yet seen, he went to Babylon, got involved in a wild party, became incredibly drunk, and died. And his four generals divided the empire and took control. We mentioned their names last week: Cassander, Lysimachus, Seleucus, and Ptolemey. This didn’t happen immediately; in fact, there were 22 years of chaos before things finally settled down and there was this neat division into four. Verse 22 explains this passage by saying that the four were not as powerful as the one had been, and this is exactly true.
Charles Ross Weede has written a poem comparing Christ and Alexander. Here it is:
Jesus and Alexander/ Died at thirty three
One lived and died for self/ One died for you and me
The Greek died on a throne/ The Jew died on a cross
One's life a triumph seemed/ The other’s but a loss
One led vast armies forth/ The other walked alone
One shed a whole world's blood/ The other gave His own
One won the world in life/ And wasted it all in death
The other gave His life/ To win our love and faith
Jesus and Alexander/ Died at thirty three
One died at Babylon/ And one died at Calvary
One gained all for himself/ Jesus, Himself He gave
One conquered every throne/ The other every grave
The one made himself God/ The other made Himself less
The one lived but to blast/ The other lived to bless
When died the Greek forever/ Fell his throne of swords
But Jesus died and lives/ Forever Lord of Lords
Jesus and Alexander/ Died at thirty three
The Greek made all men slaves/ But Jesus makes men free
One built his throne on blood/ The other built on love
The one was born of earth/ Jesus came from above
One won the whole of earth/ To lose both earth and heaven
The other gave up all/ And all to Him is given
Out of one of them came another horn, which started small but grew in power to the south and to the east and toward the Beautiful Land. It grew until it reached the host of the heavens, and it threw some of the starry host down to the earth and trampled on them. It set itself up to be as great as the Prince of the host; it took away the daily sacrifice from him, and the place of his sanctuary was brought low. Because of rebellion, the host of the saintsand the daily sacrifice were given over to it. It prospered in everything it did, and truth was thrown to the ground. – Daniel 8:9-12
Now who in the world is this? There are two main interpretations, and I will briefly give you both of them. One is that this refers to Antiochus, more properly, Antiochus IV Epiphanes. Antiochus did start from nothing, not even a real right to any throne of all, but he became the eighth ruler of the Seleucid dynasty, the succession of kings that began with Alexander’s general Seleucus. The Seleucids controlled Babylonia and Assyria; Antiochus greatly expanded this, capturing Israel and, later, Egypt.
As leader, Antiochus worked to “Hellenize” the Jews. He did this many ways, starting with getting Jews running around naked in athletic contests and becoming embarrassed at their circumcisions, and eventually moving up to putting a statue of Zeus in the Temple! While capturing Egypt, a rumor began in Israel that he had been killed, and the Jews revolted. Antiochus returned and in a fury, massacred tens of thousands of Jews and outlawed Jewish religious practices. Keeping the Sabbath, performing circumcisions, and so on, carried the death penalty. He would even kill the babies that had been circumcised. He also desecrated the Temple. An account of this can be found in the books of Maccabees, part of the Apocrypha, not part of the protestant Bible canon. The stars, by the way, may refer to those who follow God, who are wise (see Daniel 12:3). One more fact about Antiochus – he was a megalomaniac and had coins imprinted that said “Theos Antiochus TheosEpiphanes” which means “God Antiochus, God Manifest.”
The other main theory is that this refers to Rome. The Prince of the Host (or Prince of Princes) could obviously be seen to refer to Christ. Rome was the dominant power that existed when Herod tried to kill Christ and when Christ was crucified. Rome eventually did destroy and desecrate the Temple in AD 70, and it did so figuratively decades earlier by crucifying Christ, who referred to Himself as God’s Temple. (Destroy this Temple in three days…) And as for truth being thrown to the ground, I think of Pilate’s comment, “What is truth?”
In a way, it might refer to both. If you recall last week, we had another situation in which there was more than one possible interpretation. There too, in a way, perhaps it could be both. God is able to do this and has done this with other prophecies. They are fulfilled once, and then fulfilled later in a greater, more spectacular way.
And in fact, this entire chapter is dealing with a recurring theme, that of wicked people rising to greater and greater power and committing greater and greater atrocities. The ultimate fulfillment of this will be when the antichrist comes, the final accuser and desecrator and murderer of God’s followers. Let’s continue with the passage:
Then I heard a holy one speaking, and another holy one said to him, “How long will it take for the vision to be fulfilled—the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, the rebellion that causes desolation, and the surrender of the sanctuary and of the host that will be trampled underfoot?” He said to me, “It will take 2,300 evenings and mornings; then the sanctuary will be reconsecrated.” – Daniel 8:13-14
Let me mention that if the previous passage refers to Antiochus, the 2300 may fit. Under the leadership of the Maccabees, Judas Maccabeus led a revolt and cleansed the Temple. This occurred in December 165 BC. Subtracting 2300 days brings you back to 171 BC, and although we don’t know the date Antiochus began the crackdown in Israel, we know that it did happen in 171 BC. I will speak of the other interpretation a little later.
While I, Daniel, was watching the vision and trying to understand it, there before me stood one who looked like a man. And I heard a man’s voice from the Ulai calling, “Gabriel, tell this man the meaning of the vision.” – Daniel 8:15-16
Gabriel. Among the angels given by name, and there are only a few, Gabriel is the announcer, the explainer. He is the one who speaks to Zechariah and Mary in Luke 1 about the coming births of John the Baptist and Jesus. And here he is about to explain the prophecy.
As he came near the place where I was standing, I was terrified and fell prostrate. “Son of man,” he said to me, “understand that the vision concerns the time of the end.” While he was speaking to me, I was in a deep sleep, with my face to the ground. Then he touched me and raised me to my feet. – Daniel 8:17-18
This is similar to the situation when Isaiah comes face to face with an angel, as well as other situations in both the Old and New Testaments. Coming into the presence of the holy, one becomes terrified, sometimes deeply aware of their sin and inadequacy to be in the presence of God or His holy ones. But the response is also often the same – do not be afraid, assurance. Here, the angel brings Daniel back up to his feet.
He said: “I am going to tell you what will happen later in the time of wrath, because the vision concerns the appointed time of the end. The two-horned ram that you saw represents the kings of Media and Persia. The shaggy goat is the king of Greece, and the large horn between his eyes is the first king. The four horns that replaced the one that was broken off represent four kingdoms that will emerge from his nation but will not have the same power." – Daniel 8:19-22
This is exactly as we have already discussed.
“In the latter part of their reign, when rebels have become completely wicked, a stern-faced king, a master of intrigue, will arise. He will become very strong, but not by his own power. He will cause astounding devastation and will succeed in whatever he does. He will destroy the mighty men and the holy people. He will cause deceit to prosper, and he will consider himself superior. When they feel secure, he will destroy many and take his stand against the Prince of princes. Yet he will be destroyed, but not by human power." – Daniel 8:23-25
Does this refer to Antiochus, Rome, or the future antichrist? Yes. :)
“The vision of the evenings and mornings that has been given you is true, but seal up the vision, for it concerns the distant future.” I, Daniel, was exhausted and lay ill for several days. Then I got up and went about the king’s business. I was appalled by the vision; it was beyond understanding. – Daniel 8:26-27
Based on how I read this, I tend to think the final parts of the prophecy are talking primarily about the antichrist, and as for the 2,300, I do not feel compelled to have an answer. I don’t know when it starts from, and I don’t know if the days are literal days or perhaps refer to years. Both ideas have been suggested. I do feel pretty confident that the conclusion of the 2300 period is not in 1844 AD, one of the pillars of belief of 7th Day Adventists. The Baha’is also share this belief.
In general, we need to be careful not to get off track when looking at prophecy. We need to remind ourselves of our own fallibility and seek to remain humble. It’s clear that Daniel did this. He did not waste time trying to understand the vision. He gave up. He moved on.
But I do think the vision affected him. How? And how should it affect us? Well, for me personally, number one, it is a reminder that we do not run this world. The Israelites did not experience an unbroken time of peace and happiness, and this is not something we should expect either. I think on this tenth anniversary of 911 it is very appropriate to reflect on this. Our world is in turmoil and will remain in turmoil until Christ returns. There will be antichrists, plural, those who set themselves up against the things of God, those who hate us because of our faith in Christ. It is amazing to me how in the ten years since 9-11-01 people have downplayed the fact that those terrorists certainly did what they did for religious reasons. We are unwise if we forget this. There will certainly be future horrible acts committed for religious reasons, culminating with the most horrible acts of all committed by the final antichrist. This person will have the spirit of Satan himself, and by the way, Satan is the third angel mentioned by name in Scripture. (Gabriel and Michael are the other two.)
Number two, this chapter affects me by making me think of the end of the story. Satan doesn’t win. Christ does. And we win too, if we belong to Him, if we have placed our faith in Him, if we have called on Him to save us, to redeem us from our sins. Daniel, still in captivity, was deeply disturbed I think in part because he was being shown the future of Israel, and what he saw was a succession of giant empires with Israel seemingly at their mercy. What we should see is our Savior, making all of history just seem like a brief forward to the book that goes on for eternity. Our hope is not in this world; it is in Christ.
Remember the poem comparing Christ and Alexander? The antichrists are pretend christs, pretend messiahs. They don’t compare. Remember how Satan tempted Christ by offering Him the whole world, if He would only worship him? Jesus turned him down. Indeed, Jesus died to that offer, He died to this world, and He died in the flesh, experiencing unimaginable agony of body and soul, taking on the sins of the world and experiencing their penalty, and in so doing, He gained everything, everything for eternity. And a day will come when we will be with Him in a world without turmoil, and in bodies without turmoil, physical or mental, forever and ever.
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